Oh Dear!

[DH]

Ahhhh yes - the usual total over reactions!

I agree DH ... over reactions are everywhere.  Reading through the papers and internet stories anyone would think we were beaten by 20 or 30 points.  Instead we lost the first game of a new campaign by 6 points ... this wasn't a vital must win game, not even close.

Yes we played poorly, did enough to win and school boy mistakes put us under more pressure than we should have been.  But I'm rather amused.  There are many areas where we can improve before we face the Larkhamless Aussies ... who'll be just as determined to improve as we are.

Two players I'm most interested in next week are Chris Jack and Aaron Mauger, both need to take a more active leadership role.  Without Umaga there’s not a lot of experience in the backline, so it’s really important Mauger shows he’s good enough to take the pressure off Carter and Smith.  While Jack was [unusually] the third best lock on the paddock.

Anyways … I’m looking forward to the next few weekends and expect to see better rugby played each time.  I still consider the season a success if “just” retain the Bledisloe Cup and win all 4 tests in the UK.

Cheers
T

Alot of naiveity & arrogance involved I reckon Tesrof. In professional sport, you will lose unless you are so much better than anyone else its not funny (ie the Australian cricketers over the last 5 or so years).

I reckon Aussie League is a good barometer. The top teams do lose - sometimes against cellar dwellers. Why? Because on any given day, any team can bet the other. Doesn't matter how good you are, occasionnally you will lose. You see it in all professional sports. Every single one. If the Brisbnae Broncos lose a game, you don;t see the coach dropped, you don't see players dropped left right & centre....they had a bad game, & over a course of a season a team will go through troughs. Shit most teams in the NRL lose their first game after a 1 week bye, as they end up being slightly off the pace.

We lost by 6 points against a very strong opponent away from home. Its not the end of the world.

NZ'ers just aren't used to professional sport. I don't think as fans we understand it yet. I think thats why the Warriors, Breakers etc etc struggle in the Aust pro leagues. The players haven't got the mental toughness yet to week in, week out hard games & coping with disappointments that will happen.

cheers
DH

[Dingo]

Alot of naiveity & arrogance involved I reckon Tesrof.

Shall I let this just go through to the keeper................ argh I think not. Here is the reaction you wanted.

Naivety and arrogance on who's behalf.............. the people on this forum or the all blacks or you? Isn't it interesting the slant that everyone takes on a loss. Mine was simple, win or lose, I don't take the cheerleading approach that some of you guys do.

IMHO I don't believe lessons have been learnt. That is all I expect of the All Blacks. I don't and never have expected them to win every game. That is ridiculous. What I don't accept however is continually losing due to being out passioned and out thought. I still believe that we have the best coaching staff available in NZ guiding the All Blacks. I still believe that Henry has selected most of the correct players. I don't believe he has it all right however and I have stated this since before the start of the Lions tour.

Having re-read the posts of this thread I don't see any overreactions at all. An over reaction would be something like this.

"Oh god, the All Blacks were crap, they have it all wrong, they will never win another game, 4 more years of hell, we will never win another world cup, its a terrorist plot to destabilise the All Blacks, that’s it I give up on them, I am going to support NZ tennis now"


Call me naive, call me arrogant, just don’t call me passionless or committed.

[Nathan]

Exactly DH. We can expect to lose one or two tests a year in most future years too because with the Tri-Nations set to expand to a 3-rd-robin, it's going to be VERY tough to win all 6 games, including 3 away from home. It's been hard enough to win 4 games in a Tri-Nations. It's only been done 4 times (NZ 96, 97, 03, and SA 98).


The result of this will see the Tri-Nations TITLE become more prestigious than the test matches themselves.
I reckon that the Tri-Nations has got a bit riding on it now too. Some people value the Bledisloe Cup more than the 3N because it has the history behind it.

Well after this year there will have been 10 years of Tri-Nations rugby and haven't we seen some memorable games in that time? It will continue to grow in stature and in time will be 2nd only to the World Cup in the title All Black supporters want to hold.

[DH]

Alot of naiveity & arrogance involved I reckon Tesrof.

Shall I let this just go through to the keeper................ argh I think not. Here is the reaction you wanted.

Naivety and arrogance on who's behalf.............. the people on this forum or the all blacks or you? Isn't it interesting the slant that everyone takes on a loss. Mine was simple, win or lose, I don't take the cheerleading approach that some of you guys do.

IMHO I don't believe lessons have been learnt. That is all I expect of the All Blacks. I don't and never have expected them to win every game. That is ridiculous. What I don't accept however is continually losing due to being out passioned and out thought. I still believe that we have the best coaching staff available in NZ guiding the All Blacks. I still believe that Henry has selected most of the correct players. I don't believe he has it all right however and I have stated this since before the start of the Lions tour.

Having re-read the posts of this thread I don't see any overreactions at all. An over reaction would be something like this.

"Oh god, the All Blacks were crap, they have it all wrong, they will never win another game, 4 more years of hell, we will never win another world cup, its a terrorist plot to destabilise the All Blacks, that’s it I give up on them, I am going to support NZ tennis now"


Call me naive, call me arrogant, just don’t call me passionless or committed.

No no, you misunderstand - not directed at you - at NZ public in general. Talk back has been going nuts.

In pro sports, sometimes teams turn up...even champion teams...& play a passionless game and they are rolled, or make uncharacteristic mistakes & lose....its the nature of the beast. You've only gotta look at win/loss records over a whole range of sports to realise this to be fact.

Its unrealistic to expect a team to turn up every single game & win, and have the appropriate passion to win.  You might expect that as a fan, but everything points to that not being the case. That only happens if the sport in question is very weak across the board. I wouldn't call last weekend's game a passionless performance by any means - they made some bad calls at crucial times, and a few handling errors. Thus they lost.

To me in any pro sport if a team turns up & wins most games, then there is something wrong with that sport. Case in point International rugby league & cricket. Cricket is in real danger when a team like NZ can roll another international team within 2 days, and to have 1 team dominating for so long.

cheers
DH

[Hamish]

ok Dingo.
You are naive and arrogant.








As for the other items you raised. Collins and Soioalo played very well. Both of them were able to engage the oppostion with ball in hand and off-load on a number of occasions, they got over the gain-line and defended exceptionally well. I do believe that we need more height in the back row but I also believe that none of the "better" lineout options in other loose forward candidates deserve to be rated ahead of Rodney and Jerry.
As for a poor game plan. I think it came extremely close to working. But for an intercept and some mistakes costing us (ie risky dropouts, Carter's dropped ball) that game is a comfortable win for the ABs.
I agree with you that we were impatient - and the players themselves have acknowledged that. I also agree that a bit more variety was required (also acknowledged by the players)

But.... if you want to see a team exhibiting some intelligence you need to empower them to make some decisions. They will learn from their mistakes. Sometimes they won't execute the game plan the way it was drawn up.

Henry and co want this team to "play it as they see it" within some prescribed frameworks..... and a lot of these guys are still finding their feet (Carter, Weepu, Soioalo) are still very raw internationally and are in key positions. Even Mauger has been unable to consitently
fill the No12 jersey (but he did nee to "take on the line" more than he did on Sat.

Anyway...not happy about losing but also not exactly slashing my wrists. Would like to see a bit more patience with the ball in the return match and a greater willingness to play the game at their end of the paddock. Would be interested to see McAlister get a go at 12 as well. He offers a bit more physicality.

[Dingo]

ok Dingo.
You are naive and arrogant.

Slap,     ouch,   Slap......... ouch

Thanks for that I feel much better

[Dingo]

No no, you misunderstand - not directed at you - at NZ public in general. Talk back has been going nuts.

Agh the joys of living in country that has turned on the mens swim team for only winning 3 golds at the world champs when the women win 10

[Geeves]

Agh the joys of living in country that has turned on the mens swim team for only winning 3 golds at the world champs when the women win 10

Thanks be to Hacket 400, 800, 1500.

[Gwynn]

Henry and co want this team to "play it as they see it" within some prescribed frameworks..... and a lot of these guys are still finding their feet (Carter, Weepu, Soioalo) are still very raw internationally and are in key positions. Even Mauger has been unable to consitently
fill the No12 jersey (but he did nee to "take on the line" more than he did on Sat.

You're exactly right, and they'll all hopefully be better for the experience (especially Carter and Weepu).  Carter had an off night, but he'll bounce back, and Weepu has shown enormous potential.

Gwynn

[DMac]

Well done the boks, really took the game to us up front which is wher ethe real pressure came from.

Our lineout was under pressure again. When will our coaches realise that mealamu is a fantastic player off the bench and not use him from the start!

Scrum struggled for most of the game in my opinion. While I thougght woodcock did well on the wing for several runs I have one lingering thought .... what was he doing there!!!!

Impressed by Wepus strength in the contact area but needs to work on his passing accuracy.
Jerry seemed to spend a lot of time in the open but when we needed to change our game plan and go up the middle and drive and pick+go he was too far away and I suspect a traditional tighter 6 may have been a better option off the bench (he did put in some big D though ... butu we lost so I look at tactical changes).

Carter struggled under real pressure.

To think that was the sort of intensity we expected from the lions, what a tour it could have been... sigh.

THe boks tactics seem to be, go hard and get some points, then kick for position and rush defense so you have to play catch up. If we score first I don't believe they could actually create scoring oppoirtunities, have they managed a try so far that wasn't an intercept? Have they looked like they could create one?

Great test match though. Hated the result but an absolute ripper. Matfield and Botha outstanding, though Matfields shoulder on kellehers head should have him out for a couple of weeeks .... oh no its a saffa judiciary so nothing will happen. (an aussie one would give him the season off! its such a good concept being stuffed up by politics of the game)