Forget Cully... Forwards are the key.

[Toby]

Yep, forwards are definitely the key.

Particulary an effective, offensive defense by the forwards in and around the breakdown..

As said in other posts, the fan out, thin defensive line works fine if the first guy puts the ball carrier down.  If he doesn't, you end up like the Maori, waiting for the other team to screw up.  You take out the element of extreme confrontation at ruck and maul time which can result in forwards not getting into the game.... before you know it you're on your own 5m line standing off or leaning on a rolling maul and getting driven over the line... hands on heads.... fuck!  (sound familiar?)   or even worse, a half back jogs up the guts for a soft try....

The maori game was the first time in my memory I've watched Maori team forwards standing off rucks and mauls all day instead of flying in with no fear of injury to themselves, teammates and least of all opposition (or refs)..... result?.... watch the poms forwards pyschologically and physically get parity and eventually domination and the bro's play catchup.

Here's hoping (and expecting) the AB's play smart this weekend.  Sure, fan out when the ball carrier has been dropped, but don't do it as a rule of thumb at every breakdown.  In fact, fuck the fan out shit as a rule of thumb, use it as the optional go to plan, use the deep wedge, blow them away..... "PLEASE Mr Pom please run one off the ruck, or thru the middle, here's a little welcome for you... BOOM, and here's some stripes from my mates for coming...."  

Sorry, Wobbly, but forget Cully ?   Ummm no.... can't help thinking that yet again we're playing a world class winger out of position, and a fit, undoubted, world class player will be watching the game in a pub somewhere.

(god that all sounds negative.....  argh piss off and hug a tree!)

Go the Black team!

[DMac]

Well done Toby, first time I've agreed with a man who drinks steinlager...if thas not a contradiction.
I thought the maoris showed exactly how NOT to clean out when they had possesion. I wonder if Eng can actually stay on their feet at a breakdown? Haven't seen it yet.

Who's the ref for the game? Could be significant.

[Loose Unit]

I believe the ref is "Mr Yellow Card" Stu Dickerson

[Wobbly]

Cully who?  I've forgotten him already    

The point was, forget about backline technicalities because it won't matter a shit who is at number 15 if the forwards aren't doing the job.

Toby, I agree with you on the Maoris game.  I couldn't belive how conservative they were in defence.  I don't think I saw a single Kamikazi killer tackle in the whole game.  It was very very disappointing.  Its hard to believe that there was a NZ Maoris team out there with no hard men or enforcers in it.

If the All Blacks don't put some big hits in, we are up for a some of the same.  Interestingly there aren't any guys in that forward pack known for monster debilitating tackles.

No Collins, no Maxwell...  I wonder if that could be a key ingredient missing.  Admittedly Umaga will be smashing them out wide.  But who is going to do it in the tight?

Wobbly.

[BlueThunder]

No Collins, no Maxwell...  I wonder if that could be a key ingredient missing.  Admittedly Umaga will be smashing them out wide.  But who is going to do it in the tight?

Williams hits harder than you would expect, Jack will monster the occasional player,  Anton ,McCaw and So'oialo are bound to make a atleast a few good hits.

[Nathan]

I agree that fowards are the key, but the backs DO matter. If they didn't matter a toss then why not just put any old pack of bozos with beer guts in the backline.
Fowards do all the work, but in my book you still need the best backline too if you want to maximise your chances of winning the test match. And in my book, the best backline means Howlett on the wing where he belongs and Cullen at fullback.

[Laney]

I back Howlett at fullback. We need to give him as much time with his hands on the ball as possible. Hes going to get more ball at fullback than on the wing.

[Toby]

Definitely am not knocking Howlett and I haven't actually heard anyone knock him.  I reckon he'll probably do a pretty good job at 15.  He's a class player.

Just think it's a no brainer that Cullen at 15, with Howlett in his true position on the wing, is a far stronger mix of both skills, experience and try scoring capabilities, without compromising defense (I reckon enhancing it).

I struggle to see how anyone wouldn't pick Cullen in the top 2 fullbacks in the country this year.  If you assume that McDonald is the other in the top 2 and he's out hurt..... ummm... I'm scratching my head why Cullen will be at the Western Park Tavern (or wherever)rather than running around in the Cake Tin.

If you add in NZ's apparent lack of world class wingers in this years S12, why why why, do we stick our only fit, proven, world class winger out of position at full back so we can play an untried up and commer and a well-tried journeyman on the wings?

I just hope that Cullens omission is truly to do with a perceived lack in his skill-set by the coach, rather than some piss-ant personality clash or something equally pathetic.

Fuck!  I sound all negative again  

Despite all the above, I'll be yelling at a big screen in Saturday night as Tana pops a short ball off his hip and Nonu hits the hole and smashes straight thru 2 englishmen to score..... yeah baby!
 

[Stripe]

Good post Toby. Surely a few of you remember the dangers of playing people out of position when they were already doing great things where they were meant to be. Hell, Cullen himself suffered from getting shoved into centre. And who could forget Mark Ellis at 1st Five?

*shudder*

Not that he did anything good anywhere else or anything to be a relevant example for me to use. Though he did score six tries in a test match once.

Now Howlett will be fine at fullback. He's been doing it all year and seemed to be more effective there if anything. So maybe this isn't the same dreaded situation. But I sure as heck would prefer Ralph dropped.

:P

[Nathan]

Of course Howlett will be fine at fullback - it's Rokokoko on the wing spot vacated by Howlett's shift that I'm worried about.

[DMac]

I have to agree with Nathan on this one. (see also his comments on the Bring back cullen thread). I'd be much happier with Cullen at fullback and Howlett on the wing. I'd still stick with Ralph on the other because he has the experience for a big game that the other wing options dont.
While I am sure that Rocokoko is a class act I'm just a bit nervous about him under big pressure....just because he hasn't been in any really big games where he was the target. Eng will kick at him all day...unless he takes the first two well. Good luck to him though. I wish him well and hope he has a blinder.
Go the ABs !!!!
Its too late to change the team now...Bring it on !!!

[Tesrof]

So are the All Black forwards up to the job?  I'm not so sure.  I bloody hope so!  

So we're they up to the job?  Meeus, Jack, McCaw, Collins, Brad Thorne & Mealamu - yes.  But how many would be good enough to play in the French or English packs?

Cheers
T

[Wobbly]

Oddly....  After the England game, which we lost, I felt better about the forwards display than after the French game, which we won.

Maybe losing six of our own lineouts and winning none of the French ones left a sour taste.


Wobbly.

[3me]

I reckon the 1999 Auckland match, the All Blacks have explored some serious flaws in the Wallabies ball in hand play with their forward dominance and Mehrtens punished us with kicking 8 or 9 penalties in that match. That is the catlayst of why the English is doing so well at the moment. For some unknown reasons, why the All Blacks didn't use that tactic during the RWC'99.

[MR]

3me...u are right ...that first TRi Nations game was probably the last time abs were really dominant in the forwrds in a game against a top rugby nation (obviously not including wales, scots etc)

Unfortunately they bombed the return game at Aussie stadium in 99