Pick an end of year All Blacks side

[Gwynn]

They've talked of picking a specialist openside to back up McCaw, so doubt that'll be Rodney, presume they'll be looking at the specialist opensides available, with the possiblity of including Messam and developing him as a specialist, and seeing which offers the best long term backup to McCaw.

[Teach]

... best long term backup to McCaw.

Needs to be someone with special patience, because he won't get much big game time.

Who is the All Black with the highest ratio of AB game time spent on the bench?

Hewitt? Kelleher? Holah? AN Other?

[Gwynn]

After watching Lions v Taranaki, just a few thoughts on Cory Jane - on attack he's brilliant, great step, brilliant speed, runs well in support.  Defensively his positional play needs work, but that's not beyond rescue, but definately should have a spot finally booked in the AB's.

As for Hosea Gear, it's tough on Wulf & Tuitivake who haven't done much wrong, and with Rocokoco coming back, and Sivi showing some form on Saturday, it seems to me like whoever does miss out will be hugely unlucky, but my money is on Wulf missing out at the moment to give Gear and his new found x-factor a shot.

[EREHWON WARRIORS]

An interesting mix in Orkland this week!.....from rugbyheaven today....

Latimer, Waldrom both in All Black picture                                                          By MARC HINTON

Loose forward contenders Tanerau Latimer and Scott Waldrom have both been invited to an All Blacks wider training group get-together in Auckland this week.

All Blacks coach Graham Henry has announced a 25-strong squad to assemble in Auckland on Monday evening and prepare for a match against the Pat Lam-coached New Zealand Barbarians on Wednesday.

Bay of Plenty's Latimer and Tarnaki's Waldrom are both in contention to make the November tour as Richie McCaw's chief openside flanker backup, with the squad selection giving no indication which of the pair holds the front running.

Other tour contenders who have made the squad include lock Jason Eaton, loose forward Liam Messam, props Ben Franks and Jamie Mackintosh and wing Josevata Rokocoko.

The squad does not include any members of the Canterbury and Wellington teams who will contest Saturday night's Air NZ Cup final in the capital. The NZRU also emphasised in its media release that the squad does not include "all players in contention" for the tour.

The squad includes all of the incumbent All Blacks not contesting Saturday's final, with North Harbour winger Rudi Wulf thought to be the most under threat for a spot in the 35-strong tour squad.

The camp ends on Thursday.  The All Blacks squad to tour Hong Kong, the UK and Ireland will be named at 9am on Sunday at the NZRU offices in Wellington.   I think we'll be flys on the wall, Matt!

All Blacks wider training group: John Afoa, Anthony Boric, Jimmy Cowan, Stephen Donald, Jason Eaton, Ben Franks, Andrew Hore, Richard Kahui, Jerome Kaino, Tanerau Latimer, Sione Lauaki, Jamie Mackintosh, Keven Mealamu, Liam Messam, Mils Muliaina, Josevata Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Adam Thomson, Brad Thorn, Isaia Toeava, Anthony Tuitavake, Scott Waldrom, Ali Williams, Tony Woodcock and Rudi Wulf.


Cheers,
 Baz 

[gluck]

Elliot should be the first Hooker picked and I would like to see him get a test start even though Hore has done nothing wrong.

[Gwynn]

Elliott's time will come, no doubt they want to see more Super 14 time out of him, which I suspect will also be the fate of other promising guys like Dagg & Guildford from the bay.

[EREHWON WARRIORS]

From rugbyheaven this afo.........

Afoa injury concern as ABs rout Baabaas                                                                     By DUNCAN JOHNSTONE

The All Blacks wider training squad got the workout they wanted though they did pick up one worrying injury as they beat the New Zealand Barbarians 56-10 in Auckland today.

A knee injury to tighthead prop John Afoa complicated an otherwise useful workout for Graham Henry's squad, minus the players featuring in this weekend's Air NZ Cup provincial final.

Coming on top of Neemia Tialata's own knee problems in Wellington, that have the big All Black in doubt for Saturday night's final, Afoa's knock is a concern Henry could probably do without.

Henry admitted at this early stage Afoa could be doubtful for Hong Kong.

The All Blacks scored eight converted tries but got a physical test from the Baabaas who managed to open the scoring in each half.

Henry used the game to give all 26 of his squad action but notably asked lock Ali Williams, prop Tony Woodcock and five-eighth Dan Carter to put in the entire 80 minutes – their first taste of rugby since helping the All Blacks win the Tri-Nations in Brisbane on September 13.

The big matchup at openside flanker in the quest to find Richie McCaw's backup was probably pipped in the favour of Taranaki's Scott Waldrom on the day.

He and Tanerau Latimer played a half for each team. Waldrom was the pick of the Baabaas forwards in the first spell and followed that up with a solid 40 minutes for the All Blacks squad.

Auckland wing Joe Rokococko, who has played only sparingly this year after a series of injuries, was another who was asked to front for the whole game, and finished with two tries.

Carter put in half a game at second five, with Stephen Donald playing the first half in the No 10 jersey despite a recent rib injury.

Massive Southland prop Jamie Mackintosh also played the second half of the match at tighthead, which is not his specialist position.

All Blacks 56: Joe Rokocko 2, Richard Kahui 2, Dan Carter, Tony Woodcock, Ali Williams, Rudi Wulf tries; Stephen Donald 4 cons, Carter 4 cons.

NZ Barbarians 10: Scott Waldrom, Jamie Helleur tries.

NICE WORK: Taranaki's Scott Waldrom put in a strong performance in the battle to be Richie McCaw's backup during the All Blacks' training squad's hitout against the Baabaas.  Good one Scotty!....though I reckon Latimer is the better long term prospect on age alone!

Cheers,
 Baz 

[M.R.B.M]

With the All Blacks set to embark on another mission to complete the Grand Slam and with games against Australia and Munster thrown in for good measure, this year's end of season tour is definitely one to watch.


Sunday News columnists Laurie Mains and Frank Bunce spent time deliberating last week on who they'd take in their 35-man squad and came up with a few interesting selections.

HOOKERS

Laurie Mains: Well, obviously Andrew Hore is a sitter. Keven Mealamu will go but to me his form hasn't been good enough.

The other two I like are Hika Elliott and also Dane Coles from Wellington but he's got plenty of time ahead of him.

I don't believe Corey Flynn should go, the fact that he's been injured and that his lineout throwing has been all over the place, I don't think they'll risk him.

Frank Bunce: He's been out of the scene for a while now and I think it's a backwards step to go to him.

The likes of Hika and Dane show more potential.

LM: Hika is performing strongly in a good, performing forward pack and there's no reason not to select him.

SELECTED: Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Hika Elliott

PROPS

LM: They selected Greg Somerville, who's going overseas earlier in the year because they desperately needed him but a tour like this gives them the opportunity to blood players.

Tialata, Woodcock and Afoa are all certainties. I want to throw in Jamie Mackintosh from Southland. He's just got everything going for him and he's another Carl Hayman.

FB: I'm pretty keen on Jamie too. He just looks solid to me and he looks hard.

LM: He's got a great attitude and all his life, because he's been such a big kid and a good player, he's come through the school of hard knocks because he's always had to mark guys that are older and far more experienced than him.

So he has got that toughness about him and I thought that in a number of the games for the Highlanders this year and now for Southland, he's stepped up another gear.

You can look at Ben Franks or John Schwalger for the next one. Schwalger is also in a good pack, Jamie Joseph has got them playing very well.

FB: Ben Franks can play on both sides of the scrum and Schwalger to me doesn't stand out.

LM: Franks has done more than Ben May and Aled de Malmanche. De Malmanche is not a bad player and I've been quite impressed with him in the past, particularly in last year's Super 14.

But this year in NPC he's just fallen away.

I'm not over enthused by Schwalger so I'd go with Franks. Franks shows a bit of guts at times.

SELECTED: Neemia Tialata, Tony Woodcock, John Afoa, Jamie McIntosh, Ben Franks

LOCKS

FB: Ali Williams, Brad Thorn and Anthony Boric are the first three to pick.

LM: I want to throw up Tom Donnelly's name. He had a really good Super 14, but has suffered from playing in an inept Otago team. But to me he's got the size and mongrel to be a good international player. Jason Eaton has fallen off the pace.

FB: What about Jeremy Thrush?

LM: He's quite a good player, he's a good worker but do you think he's big enough to be a truly international player, remembering that also he's in a forward pack that's performing really well?

FB: He's pretty young and would still have some room for developing I'd say. I like his work rate more than anything, he does the shit work and I like that.

LM: He and Donnelly are similar players in a lot of ways but Donnelly has probably got a bit more mongrel. They do the shit work and you do see them turning up and running with the ball at times and that's important for all forwards these days, that they take their turn at that.

I don't think Ross Filipo is there and Eaton's certainly off the pace, so we'll put Donnelly and Thrush in.

SELECTED: Ali Williams, Brad Thorn, pictured, Anthony Boric, Tom Donnelly, Jeremy Thrush.

LOOSE FORWARDS

LM: Rodney So'oialo, Richie and Jerome Kaino are certainties. We'll leave Adam Thompson in, but he just doesn't do enough work for me.

Kieran Read is someone who has got to go but New Zealand still has to find another specialist openside flanker from somewhere. If they're taking another specialist seven, you'd think about the future and I'd look to get the best young one who we believe could develop into an international player.

Scott Waldrom is a good player and so is his brother and I'd have Thomas Waldrom in ahead of Sione Lauaki.

I'm not sure about Tanerau Latimer, whether he's a genuine openside or not, can he get the turnovers, because we know he's a good runner with the ball.

FB: I like Liam Messam, he has been a bit up and down but you can blame that on Waikato. I like what he brings to the game.

LM: I'd go along with that. Injuries have affected him a bit with his hamstring.

FB: He's big, strong and powerful and he just works and works. I'd like to give him a chance to see if he can make the step up.

SELECTED: Rodney So'oialo, Richie McCaw, Jerome Kaino, Adam Thompson, Kieran Read, Thomas Waldrom, Liam Messam.

HALFBACKS

FB: I'd go with Jimmy Cowan, Andy Ellis and Piri Weepu. Taniela Moa doesn't figure in my thinking.

LM: What we've got to remember is that next year well have Brendon Leonard back, so there isn't the need to bring in a young player for training.

SELECTED: Jimmy Cowan, Andy Ellis and Piri Weepu

FIRST-FIVES

LM: You've got Dan Carter and Stephen Donald and that's the end of the debate about that position really.

SELECTED: Dan Carter, Stephen Donald

SECOND-FIVES

LM: There's Ma'a Nonu

FB: I don't think Benson Stanley will figure in the squad.

LM: I quite like Benson but I don't think he's true international class. Stephen is a player for the future but probably not as a second-five. Tim Bateman isn't a bad player and he's a specialist second-five. He's a player who doesn't give a shit about who he's marking, he just gets out there and does the job and he's been a good defender.

SELECTED: Ma'a Nonu, Tim Bateman.

CENTRES

FB: Conrad Smith and Richard Kahui are the obvious selections.

SELECTED: Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui.

WINGS

FB: There's Sitiveni Sivivatu and Rokocoko

LM: I think Anthony Tuitavake should go. Is Zac Guildford better than him? I don't think he is.

FB: No not at the moment and I don't think Tuitavake has really done anything wrong.

LM: He's been in a very difficult side and as selectors we have to take that into account. He's got a better argument to go than Rudi Wulf. Hosea Gear should go, he's a bloody good, strong player.

SELECTED: Sitiveni Sivivatu, Josevata Rokocoko, Anthony Tuitavake, Hosea Gear.

FULLBACK

LM: Mils Muliaina will obviously go, the other one comes down to either Cory Jane or Isaia Toeava. I think you should stay with Toeava. He actually played OK in the Tri-nations and particularly that test in South Africa.

He didn't have a great Super 14 but I think he's probably done enough to stay there and I think Cory Jane can be very flighty.

FB: Yep Toeava deserves another go. He can also play at 10, 12 13, 11 and 15.

SELECTED: Mils Muliaina, Isaia Toeava

SUMMARY

LM: When you look at players like Hika Elliott, Jamie McIntosh, Liam Messam, Thomas Waldrom, Kieran Read, Tim Bateman and Hosea Gear, you can see there's some real exciting players in this team that could add another dimension to the way it plays. I genuinely believe that those young players we've put in here speak volumes for the depth of New Zealand rugby.

FB: We're not in that bad a state. We've lost a hell of lot of players but when you look at the names there's some exciting players.

LM: I thought we would struggle a bit in the Tri-nations but we finished strongly. That told me our young players who hadn't proved themselves at international level are as good as those we've lost. I don't think last year's team would have done better in the Tri-nations than this year's team.

New Zealand rugby at the top level is still in pretty good shape and the young talent coming through is as good as the players falling off the top.

FB: It's only experience that they lack and that's what these tours are for. As long as we don't have to do what Auckland did in the Air New Zealand Cup and try to replace a whole team at the same time then I don't think we've got that much to worry about.

LM: With the young players we've brought in and the young ones already there, there won't be a dramatic turnover in the next three or four years.


Interesting to read their thoughts..

[gluck]

Perhaps Eaton should be kicked up the arse but taken on tour nevertheless. Hes got a hell of a lot of talent can play
4 and 6. Plenty of skill. We don't want to waste him.  Put him back in the environment and see what happens.