RWC 2011: Pool A : All Blacks vs France

[Teach]

The big game of our pool is coming up, but other events have made it meaningless.

The French can comfortably lose this game. Their fans won't care, and as things stand now, they will arguably be better off by losing.
The French can beat us when they have the passion to do it, but I can't see them bringing that this time around. Why would they?

No need to wait for the team announcements. AB's comfortably by at least 15. And it won't mean a damn thing.
As usual we will have to wait till the QF to start our world cup.

[jules]

Good point Teach. I had to think through the permutations but you are quite right.

As it stands the quarters are looking like this:
Ire(1C) vs Wal (2D)
Eng(1B) vs Fra (2A)

SA(1D) vs Aus (2C)
NZ(1A) vs Arg (2B)

Interesting all the Southern hemisphere powerhouses are in the bottom half of the draw, and the Northern hemisphere boys in the top half.

I think only Scotland, Fiji and Samoa have a chance of sneaking in at this stage, at the expense of Argentina or Wales.

As you say France don't really want to win this one and finish first in pool A, as that lands them in the bottom section of the quarters with the Tri-nations boys.

Maybe the ABs should throw this game against France eh? Then we can be in the top half and get the "easier" path to the finals.

Would certainly be a big upset (bigger than Ire over Aus) if France win this game on the weekend, but it is nice to know that it probably would make our run to the finals look better.

Go on Ted, this is a tournament. It's all about the big prize, not the individual games. throw the game, I dare ya!  

Jules

[BT]

Go on Ted, this is a tournament. It's all about the big prize, not the individual games. throw the game, I dare ya!  

WTF?!? 

Jules mate, I have warned you about this before!! The All Blacks do not "throw" games! That is the sort of thinking that got Robbie and his boys back in the tri-nations moshpit with their best mates.

If I catch you making any other such dishonourable suggestions and I'll have to take you outside for another good rucking!

BT

[irishcure]

Interesting all the Southern hemisphere powerhouses are in the bottom half of the draw, and the Northern hemisphere boys in the top half.


...Maybe the ABs should throw this game against France eh? Then we can be in the top half and get the "easier" path to the finals.

Would certainly be a big upset (bigger than Ire over Aus) if France win this game on the weekend, but it is nice to know that it probably would make our run to the finals look better.

Go on Ted, this is a tournament. It's all about the big prize, not the individual games. throw the game, I dare ya!  

Jules

Sorry lads, but this all sounds very familiar... you lot should check in with Geeves about easy games.

I really don't mean to knock ye off. It suits the rest of us just fine. And the Ozzies at least had the excuse that they were like a bunch of kiddies who'd drunk too much soda after they'd won the Tri-nations. But you'd think you Kiwis would have realised the perils of such idle mouthing off at the WC.

Did it ever occur to any of ye, that there's the smallest, outside, tiniest, remotest possibility that Australia lost because they were ultimately not actually as good. And certainly not as good as ye had been thinking when ye were filling in the tournament wallchart and how many points the ABs were going to win the final by.

Don't get me wrong. I think the ABs are way out favourites to win too. If they don't it's hard to imagine what would stop them and why. But, if that does somehow happen, then it might just be related to the dismissive attitude that is once again becoming all too obvious (just as was obvious in a large part of the Australian media last week).

And I mean that seriously - not just as a mean snipe. It all starts when a team (and their fans) goes into almost every game expecting to win by 4-5 tries and treating almost every opponent (bar one or two) as also-rans. Then, if that opposition can even manage to keep you within one score for the first half (and you've given them all the motivation they need to do just that) then the nerves kick in and everything starts to tighten up and fall-apart. And every scrum, every tackle, every penalty that the opposition wins starts to feel like an energizing force for the underdogs. I think ye know what that feels like.

Rant over.

IC
(a disgruntled Irishman who's spent the last few days hearing and reading about underperforming Wallabies, shocks and easy halfs of the draw).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0gV-Wbg04s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[gluck]

This is all speculation. My theory is that both sides will want to win. The French love beating the All Blacks. The All Blacks won't throw a test. I expect this to be a cracker.

[Hamish]

and today the French have named their best team so it dispels the theory that anyone will be "tanking"

and it doesn't really make any difference if you think the draw has become "lopsided"......and you benefit by being one the "weaker" side of the draw.

If you make it to the final, you will still have to beat the best team from the "tough" side of the draw to win Bill

[jules]

Sorry lads, but this all sounds very familiar... you lot should check in with Geeves about easy games.

I really don't mean to knock ye off. It suits the rest of us just fine. And the Ozzies at least had the excuse that they were like a bunch of kiddies who'd drunk too much soda after they'd won the Tri-nations. But you'd think you Kiwis would have realised the perils of such idle mouthing off at the WC.

Did it ever occur to any of ye, that there's the smallest, outside, tiniest, remotest possibility that Australia lost because they were ultimately not actually as good. And certainly not as good as ye had been thinking when ye were filling in the tournament wallchart and how many points the ABs were going to win the final by.

Don't get me wrong. I think the ABs are way out favourites to win too. If they don't it's hard to imagine what would stop them and why. But, if that does somehow happen, then it might just be related to the dismissive attitude that is once again becoming all too obvious (just as was obvious in a large part of the Australian media last week).

And I mean that seriously - not just as a mean snipe. It all starts when a team (and their fans) goes into almost every game expecting to win by 4-5 tries and treating almost every opponent (bar one or two) as also-rans. Then, if that opposition can even manage to keep you within one score for the first half (and you've given them all the motivation they need to do just that) then the nerves kick in and everything starts to tighten up and fall-apart. And every scrum, every tackle, every penalty that the opposition wins starts to feel like an energizing force for the underdogs. I think ye know what that feels like.

Fair enough IC, you are quite right about the expectation and attitude that the ABs (and even more so their fans!) have placed on themselves. Obviously Aussie fans have similar expectations. I think the Tri-nations victory has given them that confidence.

It's the fans that have the most one-eyed view, and conversely the least impact on the result!

Obviously there is a northern vs southern hemisphere component to this argument but kiwis know all to well that being rated the favourites just affects the odds at the bookies, it's no bloody help once the ball is kicked off.

I was only joking about NZ or France wanting to throw the game, but with the history between these two, and the possibility that they may meet again in the finals you can bet that they both want the extra confidence of knowing they beat the other guys a few weeks back, and that is confidence as individual players and as a team. What the public wants you to do just provides pressure, not confidence!

In any case, from my one-eye if I was France or NZ I would be far happier to end up having to play England and Ireland in order to make it to the finals, rather than Argentina and then SA or AUS. I know the aim is winning the finals, but being the beaten finalists is a damn sight better than being a beaten quarter or semi finalist!

Anyway, given both teams are rolling out their top squads this weekend I am actually feeling a bit nervous about the game now, certainly not expecting an easy win that's for sure, and the French have a painful RWC history for the kiwi fan.

Go the ABs! (and Go Ireland, my adopted team from the "otherside"

[Wobbly]

My take on it is that both teams have as much riding on the game.

Both can afford to lose it, but neither will want to.  While losing has a theoretically easier path to the final, the reality is there are no easy games after pool play finishes.  To bet your lunch on a particular side of the draw would be to risk going hungry for the next four years.

I can't wait for the game.  The All Blacks will surely be out to prove a point.  The French on the other hand will take every opportunity they get to remind them how things went in previous World Cups.  I am expecting an electric atmosphere.  Bring it on!

[Teach]

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Richard Kahui, Dan Carter, Piri Weepu, Adam Thomson,Richie McCaw (capt), Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brad Thorn, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodock. Reserves: Andrew Hore, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Anthony Boric, Andy Ellis, Colin Slade, Sonny Bill Williams.

Boy, Cowan has some haters on Stuff, but then so does Piri.. and so does Ellis. Pffftt who knows?

For me, NZ's strongest team in an arm-wrestle type of game would have Cowan starting, with Piri on the bench.
If you think it's going to be an armchair ride with a cricket score, then don't bother with Cowan - his main talents are wasted in that kind of game.

Not sure why Vito would miss out with 2 locks on the bench.

Otherwise fine, but I'm looking forward to Read's return.

[gluck]

Got a disagree with the Cowan Arm wrestle theory at the moment, he's not playing as well as he can. I think Weepu should take over for the rest of the cup.

[Teach]

Got a disagree with the Cowan....

  yeah.. I knew you would gluck 

[Hamish]

Got a disagree with the Cowan....

  yeah.. I knew you would gluck 

It's okay Paul....I agree with you

[Teach]

Of course when SGH says he has picked his "top" team, he means "for the next game".

Sure the French want to win, but they are also going to be playing with "no fear" and looking to "make a statement". (Quotes from the French players and coach).

Of course there is no fear, this is pretty much a "friendly"

The ABs will want to do the same, so I'm expecting an open free-flowing game of rugby.
This expectation would encourage SGH to go with Weepu, Ellis, SBW, and even Dagg over the less exciting but safer options.

[megweya]

Been there, done that - twice (99 & 07). 
The skew-logic of a rugby follower says "If I'm not there, then the Gallic galvanisation won't happen a 3rd time"

ABs will want to win - because they always want to, because it is France, because it is a stadium of 4m.

Will they perform in the intense focus of the occasion like Quade (& the Aussie pack) or like the Irish front-five?

Or be 'dwarved' by the occasion - or rise like Matfield?

The first game between the expected heavyweights! Bring it on.

Cheers

Megweya

[Teach]

OK.. I admit, Weepu is probably better than Cowan. Good game by him today. Having said that, I still like Weepu on the bench with Cowan starting  

Jane must be a bit annoyed at being the first man subbed twice in a row - just because we need to turn SBW into a wing.
Jane only got about 33 minutes tonight. It was a real shame to have him sitting there unable to play while Slade had to play wing for Kahui

SBW does look a lot better on the wing though - his moments of brilliance are just as useful and he has less opportunity to make those disastrous screw-ups.

Good game All Blacks.